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this is a very quick response video to

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uh this video by jeremy corbell who is

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interviewing john earhart an optical

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elect an electro-optical specialist

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who works at boeing and he designs and

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builds test equipment for the atfolia

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system which was made by

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raytheon and uh jeremy

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interviews him and asked some questions

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and then comes away

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thinking that he's debunked the rotating

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glare hypothesis of the gimbal but

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as we shall see i don't think that is

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correct and i'm very quickly going to go

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through the video

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now the first five minutes i just you

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know jeremy saying like debunkers are

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terrible and don't listen to them things

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like that

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then there's a couple minutes of uh john

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explaining what he does and his um

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his qualifications and his experience

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things like that which is all fine i

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have no problem with him he's obviously

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has some experience uh with the apple

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system and he understands

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the components he even describes some of

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them by by name like

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d row for d rotation so he's obviously

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familiar with the fact that they're

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there

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uh so skip four to 728

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uh which is where the actual question is

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asked let's see about that

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so let's see looks like it rotates

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counterclockwise

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in the frame does the flir gimbal ufo

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does it display an actual rotation of

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the object itself

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or is that an optical illusion

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caused by the d rotation

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mechanism within the atfleer pod

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all right so first of all this is jeremy

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asking kind of the wrong question it

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says it says

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is it caused by the d row mechanism and

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just

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the d row the d rotation mechanism by

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itself obviously isn't going to do that

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all a d rotation mechanism does is

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rotate something

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there has to be something that makes the

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glare actually rotate separate from the

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horizon

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so the derotation mechanism if all we're

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talking about is the derotation

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mechanism rotating things

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it rotates the entire scene so

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everything in that scene will rotate the

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same

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question is how do you get something

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that rotates the glare relative to the

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horizon

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so he's kind of asking the wrong

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question and i think it kind of

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leads john down the wrong path in giving

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and giving his answers so

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let's see what he says the way that

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d-row works it's going to spin

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the entire scene what it's doing is it's

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spinning the scene

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so it doesn't look like it's spinning

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it's actually counteracting

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the effect of when the gimbal is

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tracking it yeah that is that's

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perfectly correct the

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reason for the derotation mechanism is

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that the camera itself has to rotate

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because of the way it's gimbal mounted

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for various reasons and that rotation

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would make the horizon look like it's at

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weird angles

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and so they have this derotation

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mechanism that puts the horizon back

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where it should be

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so it actually doesn't look like

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anything is rotating it actually looks

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like the horizon is steady

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and this comes into play when the camera

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is tracking from left to right because

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if it's over here

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it has to be a certain angle then it's

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over here it actually has to kind of

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rotate

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all the way around and i have videos

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explaining this uh

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so that was correct everything is

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rotating

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so when you look at that video the

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target is rotating more than the scene

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is

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thinking that there's a target and then

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there's the scene

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and these are two separate things he's

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always kind of he's already starting out

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thinking that this target is an actual

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solid object

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and so he kind of goes along with that

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and that leads them to

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that video you can see a little bit of

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the whole scene rotate but the target

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just keeps rotating so there's nothing

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in the

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system that's going to rotate the target

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more than the background

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this doesn't work out right that's

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perfectly true

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you know if you've got like you've got a

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background like my bookcase is back here

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and you've got a

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a target like this little thing here and

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you rotate the entire camera

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then they're both going to rotate

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together obviously that's perfectly true

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but that's kind of assuming that what

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you see as a target is actually a solid

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object

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if it's something else like like a glare

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then we're it's a bit different so we'll

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get into that in a second

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you don't have to get into any arguments

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about whether or not it's an

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artifact of target itself causing some

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glare or something

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well actually you do you do kind of have

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to get into arguments about that because

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if it's a glare

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then the rotation uh could be

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the the the orientation of the glare

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could be affected by components of the

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camera

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light like this one here

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this is a uh canon 7d and it's got like

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this little 50 millimeter lens in and

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it's got this uh

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uh kind of hexagonal i think octagonal

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aperture in it

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and the glare that you see around lights

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from that

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will have these little spikes on in

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certain directions like up down left

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right and at 45 degrees blah blah blah

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and if you were to rotate the lens if

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you actually press this button here

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and rotate the entire lens assembly

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it actually rotates the glare the glare

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itself rotates

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so if there's something in the camera

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system ahead of

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the derotation mechanism that is

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rotating

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uh around and causes the glare itself to

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rotate

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relative to the horizon and this is the

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key point the glare rotates

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relative to the horizon because we're

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rotating

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the camera or part of the camera and

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then

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horizon back where it is but since the

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glare has rotated relative to the

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horizon the glare appears to rotate

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independently of the horizon

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it's complicated and i know a lot of

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people

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have trouble with it and i have trouble

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explaining it to people and it's

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perfectly understandable people

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people miss this uh but anyway i'm kind

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of getting ahead of myself here let's

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see what uh john has to say

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the d rotation device inside at flare is

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not going to rotate the target not the

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background

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we're seeing this yeah see again there

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is just a is

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assuming that the target is like a solid

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object as part of

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the scene rather than an artifact within

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the camera itself

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uh i mean it is it is actually sold

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obviously it's a jet engine but that

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creates this glare artifact

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uh which is kind of affected by the

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camera

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so if something is rotating in the

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camera

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then that glare will rotate relative to

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the horizon or actually really it's more

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like the horizon rotates relative to the

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glare and then

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it rotates the horizon back to where it

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should be by rotating the entire scene

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which rotates the glare and the horizon

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looks like it hasn't moved and the glare

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looks like it has moved

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complicated i know

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the gimbal craft itself

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rotate we're not seeing a glare or flare

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effect

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from this magical derotation device that

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is correct

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wow yeah that's right

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it's rotating yeah man absolutely

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it's like see that's the conclusion you

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would reach

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if you don't think about what is making

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the shape of the glare rotate

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what what why does a glare have a

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particular shape now if a glare has some

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kind of diamond shape

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it could well be because of a diamond

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shaped aperture

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or it could be because of the sequence

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of mirrors it goes through he talks a

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bit about steering mirrors earlier

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uh it could be something to do with the

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window that's in front

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of the the camera it could be that

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there's

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a very very very fine abrasions on the

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window

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that make the glare longer in one

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direction than the other

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all right yeah you have seen uh all

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these things happen with different

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cameras i've seen uh smudges on

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on the the window like do um make the

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glare go in a certain direction i've

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seen

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what appears to be something to do with

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the aperture that makes it uh uh

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like be oriented in a certain direction

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so these things do happen you do it you

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do get

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shaped glares gloves are not just

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uniformly

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uh like round blobs they quite often

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they have spikes

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like up down left right just like the

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gimbal has if you look at it closely it

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has these

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axial spikes let's go like that way and

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then

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a longer one that way along the long

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axis of the saucer

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and so if the thing that is causing that

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shape

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the thing that causes these spikes

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is rotated in front of the derotation

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mechanism

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uh then the glare is going to rotate

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relative to the horizon

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or like i said before the glare is not

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rotating but the horizon is rotating

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okay let's see what else we have it's so

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simple people are

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trying to confuse the issue yeah

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i'm not trying to confuse the issue but

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unfortunately it is confusing so you

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can't just

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simply say oh yes the derotation

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mechanism rotates the entire

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scene therefore uh the

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object could not rotate independently of

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the horizon

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yeah this is i did a whole video on this

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this uh

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this gimbal ufo why does the gimbal

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rotate so where does the glare rotate

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when the horizon does not you know i can

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uh append this to this video but you

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know i tried to explain it there

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but like i say it's it's understandably

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difficult to grasp and i think

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john is perfectly capable of grasping it

287
00:09:30,949 --> 00:09:29,680
obviously he's a technician who

288
00:09:33,590 --> 00:09:30,959
understands these things

289
00:09:34,790 --> 00:09:33,600
but i think the way jeremy has explained

290
00:09:37,590 --> 00:09:34,800
it to him

291
00:09:39,190 --> 00:09:37,600
uh has kind of left him with like a

292
00:09:39,910 --> 00:09:39,200
simple understanding of what the issue

293
00:09:42,150 --> 00:09:39,920
is

294
00:09:43,430 --> 00:09:42,160
and so it's really really jeremy's fault

295
00:09:45,030 --> 00:09:43,440
here i think unfortunately

296
00:09:46,470 --> 00:09:45,040
not really communicating the actual

297
00:09:48,150 --> 00:09:46,480
explanation to john

298
00:09:50,150 --> 00:09:48,160
but let's see what else do we have those

299
00:09:51,990 --> 00:09:50,160
arguments don't matter

300
00:09:53,590 --> 00:09:52,000
this is a mid-wave infrared camera right

301
00:09:55,190 --> 00:09:53,600
so it's looking at between like

302
00:09:57,110 --> 00:09:55,200
three and five microns that's the

303
00:09:59,110 --> 00:09:57,120
wavelength of the radiation that's three

304
00:10:01,269 --> 00:09:59,120
thousand to five thousand nanometers

305
00:10:02,310 --> 00:10:01,279
you're looking at the background and the

306
00:10:04,389 --> 00:10:02,320
same wavelength

307
00:10:07,030 --> 00:10:04,399
that you're looking at the target that's

308
00:10:08,550 --> 00:10:07,040
what's important the whole scene

309
00:10:10,069 --> 00:10:08,560
you're seeing i'm not sure that's really

310
00:10:12,389 --> 00:10:10,079
important to me it's just saying that

311
00:10:14,150 --> 00:10:12,399
it's just a single picture it's a single

312
00:10:15,190 --> 00:10:14,160
image and it's just light coming in it's

313
00:10:18,310 --> 00:10:15,200
like saying you know

314
00:10:19,990 --> 00:10:18,320
this this hand here is uh getting light

315
00:10:21,509 --> 00:10:20,000
at the same wavelength as the bookcase

316
00:10:22,710 --> 00:10:21,519
back there so they're part of the same

317
00:10:24,389 --> 00:10:22,720
scene i mean yeah it's

318
00:10:25,829 --> 00:10:24,399
true but it's not really that relevant

319
00:10:28,230 --> 00:10:25,839
it's just kind of a

320
00:10:29,590 --> 00:10:28,240
a more technical way of saying it's just

321
00:10:32,790 --> 00:10:29,600
a single image

322
00:10:33,990 --> 00:10:32,800
so the same wavelengths of energy from

323
00:10:34,870 --> 00:10:34,000
the background as you are from the

324
00:10:36,470 --> 00:10:34,880
target

325
00:10:38,150 --> 00:10:36,480
okay it's just a different amount

326
00:10:39,750 --> 00:10:38,160
different amount of flux how many

327
00:10:40,310 --> 00:10:39,760
photons per second are coming in that's

328
00:10:43,110 --> 00:10:40,320
all that's

329
00:10:44,310 --> 00:10:43,120
different to the target background

330
00:10:47,190 --> 00:10:44,320
regardless of

331
00:10:48,870 --> 00:10:47,200
if it's reflective or refractive it's

332
00:10:50,069 --> 00:10:48,880
going to change the background and the

333
00:10:51,990 --> 00:10:50,079
target the same

334
00:10:55,190 --> 00:10:52,000
so they just think of a mirror of a flat

335
00:10:56,470 --> 00:10:55,200
surface it's just going on about

336
00:10:58,310 --> 00:10:56,480
essentially the same thing how a

337
00:10:59,350 --> 00:10:58,320
derotation mechanism rotates an entire

338
00:11:00,790 --> 00:10:59,360
image which is

339
00:11:03,110 --> 00:11:00,800
understood and we're not saying the d

340
00:11:04,949 --> 00:11:03,120
rotation mechanism causes the

341
00:11:06,310 --> 00:11:04,959
object to rotate independently in the

342
00:11:08,949 --> 00:11:06,320
background it's already

343
00:11:09,590 --> 00:11:08,959
rotated independently of the background

344
00:11:11,990 --> 00:11:09,600
or

345
00:11:12,949 --> 00:11:12,000
as i said keep saying the background has

346
00:11:16,550 --> 00:11:12,959
rotated

347
00:11:18,550 --> 00:11:16,560
to rotate the

348
00:11:21,030 --> 00:11:18,560
background back and that rotates the

349
00:11:24,470 --> 00:11:22,870
an all reflective design because that's

350
00:11:27,030 --> 00:11:24,480
way way cheaper

351
00:11:27,990 --> 00:11:27,040
yeah this argument doesn't hinge on

352
00:11:31,110 --> 00:11:28,000
whether or not the d

353
00:11:33,190 --> 00:11:31,120
row is all reflective or refractive

354
00:11:34,389 --> 00:11:33,200
not at all it could be a strong man it's

355
00:11:37,110 --> 00:11:34,399
attempting to

356
00:11:37,910 --> 00:11:37,120
to argue something that's irrelevant to

357
00:11:39,590 --> 00:11:37,920
the case

358
00:11:41,509 --> 00:11:39,600
it's interesting because he says it's a

359
00:11:43,670 --> 00:11:41,519
straw man argument which is

360
00:11:45,350 --> 00:11:43,680
exactly what we've got here like jeremy

361
00:11:47,670 --> 00:11:45,360
is presenting this straw mine argument

362
00:11:49,750 --> 00:11:47,680
is the derotation mechanism causing this

363
00:11:51,750 --> 00:11:49,760
to rotate independently of that but

364
00:11:52,870 --> 00:11:51,760
uh that's not the actual argument it's

365
00:11:55,750 --> 00:11:52,880
like a

366
00:11:55,990 --> 00:11:55,760
a easy to rebut argument that you put up

367
00:11:57,670 --> 00:11:56,000
which

368
00:11:59,350 --> 00:11:57,680
is like what a straw man argument is

369
00:12:02,069 --> 00:11:59,360
this something that seems

370
00:12:03,269 --> 00:12:02,079
uh like you know seems is easier to

371
00:12:04,389 --> 00:12:03,279
attack and i'm sure that's a straw

372
00:12:07,509 --> 00:12:04,399
margin

373
00:12:09,190 --> 00:12:07,519
anyway but let's carry on

374
00:12:11,990 --> 00:12:09,200
because the object would never move

375
00:12:14,230 --> 00:12:12,000
independently of the horizon

376
00:12:15,910 --> 00:12:14,240
based on this if it was an object no it

377
00:12:17,590 --> 00:12:15,920
would if it was actual flying saucer

378
00:12:19,670 --> 00:12:17,600
then rotating the camera isn't going to

379
00:12:21,670 --> 00:12:19,680
do anything but if it's a glare

380
00:12:23,350 --> 00:12:21,680
with the shape of that glare is affected

381
00:12:25,269 --> 00:12:23,360
by components of the camera that in

382
00:12:28,949 --> 00:12:25,279
front of the derotation mechanism

383
00:12:30,069 --> 00:12:28,959
then yes it will actually rotate it will

384
00:12:34,069 --> 00:12:30,079
appear to rotate

385
00:12:37,590 --> 00:12:34,079
this system yes that object

386
00:12:38,870 --> 00:12:37,600
is turning yeah nothing inside the at

387
00:12:42,150 --> 00:12:38,880
first system

388
00:12:45,269 --> 00:12:42,160
is or could cause the rotational

389
00:12:47,590 --> 00:12:45,279
flux of the target that is

390
00:12:48,470 --> 00:12:47,600
at a higher rate than the background

391
00:12:50,870 --> 00:12:48,480
yeah i mean that's

392
00:12:52,230 --> 00:12:50,880
true but again he's like just basically

393
00:12:54,389 --> 00:12:52,240
saying stating the obvious

394
00:12:55,509 --> 00:12:54,399
here that if there's a picture and it's

395
00:12:56,790 --> 00:12:55,519
got something in the foreground and

396
00:12:57,829 --> 00:12:56,800
something in the background and you

397
00:13:00,470 --> 00:12:57,839
rotate

398
00:13:02,150 --> 00:13:00,480
uh the image they're both going to

399
00:13:03,910 --> 00:13:02,160
rotate the same that's not what the

400
00:13:07,190 --> 00:13:03,920
argument is

401
00:13:09,750 --> 00:13:07,200
there's no way the optics are

402
00:13:11,190 --> 00:13:09,760
are causing that rotation i love it how

403
00:13:11,829 --> 00:13:11,200
you cut to the chase like a [\h__\h]

404
00:13:15,509 --> 00:13:11,839
samurai

405
00:13:17,670 --> 00:13:15,519
it's a completely mute point case closed

406
00:13:19,509 --> 00:13:17,680
[\h__\h] bang people will find crafty

407
00:13:20,710 --> 00:13:19,519
ways to pull the wool over people's eyes

408
00:13:24,150 --> 00:13:20,720
trust me that

409
00:13:25,750 --> 00:13:24,160
do you find it interesting that jeremy's

410
00:13:27,350 --> 00:13:25,760
saying that people will find crafty ways

411
00:13:27,829 --> 00:13:27,360
to pull the wall over people's eyes how

412
00:13:31,430 --> 00:13:27,839
could

413
00:13:33,110 --> 00:13:31,440
eyes do you think i'm pulling the wall

414
00:13:34,710 --> 00:13:33,120
over your eyes by giving you this this

415
00:13:36,629 --> 00:13:34,720
explanation

416
00:13:38,150 --> 00:13:36,639
do you think i'm just uh i'm just an

417
00:13:41,110 --> 00:13:38,160
idiot because i don't

418
00:13:42,150 --> 00:13:41,120
understand what uh john is talking about

419
00:13:44,629 --> 00:13:42,160
here i mean i think

420
00:13:45,670 --> 00:13:44,639
yeah basically i don't think anything's

421
00:13:48,389 --> 00:13:45,680
really changed here

422
00:13:50,389 --> 00:13:48,399
john uh basically did the why does the

423
00:13:52,470 --> 00:13:50,399
horizon not rotate when the object

424
00:13:54,069 --> 00:13:52,480
does rotate argument which i explained

425
00:13:57,269 --> 00:13:54,079
in my video

426
00:13:57,670 --> 00:13:57,279
and uh nothing really changed and it's

427
00:14:01,030 --> 00:13:57,680
just

428
00:14:04,069 --> 00:14:01,040
jeremy has got

429
00:14:07,030 --> 00:14:04,079
another expert who agrees with him

430
00:14:07,910 --> 00:14:07,040
another expert who is wrong i think this

431
00:14:09,829 --> 00:14:07,920
expert

432
00:14:11,269 --> 00:14:09,839
if i was to talk to him i'd be happy to

433
00:14:12,550 --> 00:14:11,279
do so uh

434
00:14:14,310 --> 00:14:12,560
perhaps even just watching this video

435
00:14:15,670 --> 00:14:14,320
might do it he might understand the

436
00:14:16,870 --> 00:14:15,680
actual argument uh

437
00:14:19,110 --> 00:14:16,880
because he seems like he's a pretty

438
00:14:21,670 --> 00:14:19,120
smart guy so let's see

439
00:14:23,829 --> 00:14:21,680
uh finish up here it is of such a

440
00:14:26,389 --> 00:14:23,839
mechanical nature i mean they said it's

441
00:14:28,790 --> 00:14:26,399
oh yeah yeah yeah yeah that's what

442
00:14:42,870 --> 00:14:28,800
really jumps out at you

443
00:14:46,150 --> 00:14:45,030
i think jeremy is just saying this uh

444
00:14:48,710 --> 00:14:46,160
this is him here

445
00:14:51,410 --> 00:14:48,720
and he loves the smell of messing up

446
00:14:52,629 --> 00:14:51,420
debunkers in the morning

447
00:14:55,829 --> 00:14:52,639
[Music]

448
00:14:58,069 --> 00:14:55,839
beware well any thoughts yes

449
00:14:59,509 --> 00:14:58,079
yes i do have some thoughts and this

450
00:15:02,550 --> 00:14:59,519
these are they

451
00:15:04,629 --> 00:15:02,560
so i think i'll just play

452
00:15:06,870 --> 00:15:04,639
my i'll just attach this gimbal ufo

453
00:15:10,150 --> 00:15:06,880
video and you should watch this

454
00:15:10,710 --> 00:15:10,160
uh and this actually might help if you

455
00:15:13,269 --> 00:15:10,720
didn't

456
00:15:14,389 --> 00:15:13,279
follow what was happening before perhaps

457
00:15:18,230 --> 00:15:14,399
this might help

458
00:15:22,069 --> 00:15:18,240
explain what the actual theory is

459
00:15:26,470 --> 00:15:23,670
i'd like to talk to anybody who

460
00:15:28,949 --> 00:15:26,480
disagrees with me so i can

461
00:15:30,790 --> 00:15:28,959
explain it or have it explained to me so

462
00:15:34,949 --> 00:15:30,800
that would be great

463
00:15:36,550 --> 00:15:34,959
see ya so something i'm asked a lot

464
00:15:39,189 --> 00:15:36,560
regarding the gimbal video

465
00:15:40,949 --> 00:15:39,199
is if it's just a glare if it's just

466
00:15:43,910 --> 00:15:40,959
some kind of glare

467
00:15:44,870 --> 00:15:43,920
in the camera then how can the glare

468
00:15:51,030 --> 00:15:44,880
rotate

469
00:15:51,590 --> 00:15:51,040
independently of the horizon now it's

470
00:15:54,870 --> 00:15:51,600
actually

471
00:15:57,269 --> 00:15:54,880
uh not that complicated now

472
00:15:58,150 --> 00:15:57,279
the way the camera is mounted it has to

473
00:16:00,310 --> 00:15:58,160
rotate

474
00:16:01,990 --> 00:16:00,320
uh when it goes over zero degrees when

475
00:16:03,350 --> 00:16:02,000
it's going over the forward-facing

476
00:16:05,590 --> 00:16:03,360
direction just because of the way it's

477
00:16:08,629 --> 00:16:05,600
mounted because of the gimbal system

478
00:16:10,310 --> 00:16:08,639
this is an unwanted rotation

479
00:16:12,710 --> 00:16:10,320
so what they do is they have a thing

480
00:16:15,749 --> 00:16:12,720
called a derotation mechanism

481
00:16:17,509 --> 00:16:15,759
that levels out the rotation to

482
00:16:19,110 --> 00:16:17,519
make it so that the horizon is the way

483
00:16:21,670 --> 00:16:19,120
it should be which is level to the

484
00:16:24,230 --> 00:16:21,680
actual horizon as seen by the pilot

485
00:16:24,870 --> 00:16:24,240
so this derotation mechanism is applied

486
00:16:26,629 --> 00:16:24,880
after

487
00:16:28,470 --> 00:16:26,639
the actual rotation of the camera to

488
00:16:30,150 --> 00:16:28,480
remove the unwanted rotation

489
00:16:32,629 --> 00:16:30,160
so let's see what that looks like if we

490
00:16:34,629 --> 00:16:32,639
have this little camera here

491
00:16:37,110 --> 00:16:34,639
and we rotate it and say that's an

492
00:16:38,710 --> 00:16:37,120
unwanted rotation and we want to remove

493
00:16:41,590 --> 00:16:38,720
this unwanted rotation

494
00:16:43,269 --> 00:16:41,600
we just apply a d rotation to it in this

495
00:16:45,670 --> 00:16:43,279
case i just used

496
00:16:46,790 --> 00:16:45,680
a motion tracker to remove to track the

497
00:16:49,829 --> 00:16:46,800
motion and remove

498
00:16:52,550 --> 00:16:49,839
the rotation so we've derotated it here

499
00:16:53,350 --> 00:16:52,560
which gives the horizon my garage door

500
00:16:56,790 --> 00:16:53,360
here

501
00:16:59,189 --> 00:16:56,800
uh remains steady and the glare itself

502
00:17:01,430 --> 00:16:59,199
rotates because the glare is a function

503
00:17:04,789 --> 00:17:01,440
of a part of the camera

504
00:17:06,470 --> 00:17:04,799
and if we are rotating the camera

505
00:17:09,270 --> 00:17:06,480
the glare rotates relative to the

506
00:17:11,909 --> 00:17:09,280
horizon and so if we then apply this d

507
00:17:13,510 --> 00:17:11,919
rotation to get the horizon steady the

508
00:17:16,069 --> 00:17:13,520
horizon doesn't rotate

509
00:17:17,669 --> 00:17:16,079
and the glare does rotate so that

510
00:17:19,429 --> 00:17:17,679
explains what's going on in the gimbal

511
00:17:22,150 --> 00:17:19,439
ufo video

512
00:17:23,429 --> 00:17:22,160
the glare is rotating because the camera

513
00:17:25,990 --> 00:17:23,439
is rotating

514
00:17:27,750 --> 00:17:26,000
the horizon isn't rotating because they

515
00:17:29,990 --> 00:17:27,760
don't want it to rotate

516
00:17:31,510 --> 00:17:30,000
the rotation is unwanted a function of

517
00:17:33,909 --> 00:17:31,520
the gimbal system

518
00:17:35,669 --> 00:17:33,919
the d rotation rotates the glare and